Download discussion questions: 1John 2:10-17 Children, Fathers, Young Men
Table Talk: Think about where you were in life when you first responded to the Gospel. Then think of the most spiritual individual who you know personally. Where are you along that path, from first belief to mature faith?
(“Table Talk” is an opening question or topic for discussion at the beginning of our time together. The intent is to help group members (around tables, with four to six at each table) build connections with each other, as well as to guide thinking in a direction related to the passage.)
Our discussion started with the question, “What part of this passage do you find the most puzzling or even confusing?” That approach led us first to almost the end of the passage, when John writes, “If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in him” (1 John 2:15). Our discussion soon focused on a single word, a small preposition, the love “for” the Father, since someone pointed out that other translations say love “of” the Father.[1] The importance of the question became clear when one person suggested that love “for” the Father was directed “upward” as our love for Him, while love “of” the Father (or “the Father’s love”) is downward, from Him. Is John saying that if we love the world, God will not love us? That seemed to be an alarming suggestion.
How do you handle alarming or unorthodox ideas in Scripture? Skip over that part? Force the text to say what you have believed in the past? Or do you do what our group did – face the awkward interpretation head-on? We discussed the possible differences between the love “for” God and the love “of” God. Soon one member of the group pointed out that up until now John has been writing about our love (and hate) for others (cf. v. 10, brothers; v. 15, the world). Since John seems most concerned for the love we have, the context of the passage would favor the same sense. With the context in mind, either translation makes the same sense: our love “for” God and our love “of” God. In verse 15, love for the world is the measure of our love for God, not the requirement for God’s love of us. (For additional comments on that phrase in John’s writing, see the note at the end of this article.)
The most noticeable feature of this passage is the unusual structure of John’s writing in verses 12-14. On the handouts for our discussion group, I usually eliminate paragraph and chapter divisions so we can see the flow of the text. For this passage, since John’s intention seems to set off those sentences with his uncharacteristic wording, I intentionally followed his style on the handout.
Those verses clearly have a different structure, and one comment suggested that they almost sounded like a song or perhaps a poem. Parallel ideas, clear similarities and differences, repetition, contrasting verb tenses, similar but distinct wording – all those observations help get a better idea of how John was communicating.
The question becomes, Why? Why would a writer make such a markedly different shift in his writing in the middle of his argument? We considered what this part of John’s letter would have looked like without this distinctive section, jumping from the end of verse 11 right to the beginning of verse 15:
11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness, walks in the darkness, and doesn’t know where he’s going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. … 15 Do not love the world or the things that belong to the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in him. 16 For everything that belongs to the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride in one’s lifestyle—is not from the Father, but is from the world. 17 And the world with its lust is passing away, but the one who does God’s will remains forever.
John’s message takes on a completely different tone. The harsh statements about walking in the darkness and having blinded eyes are followed immediately by the strong negative commands about not loving the world. Warnings about not knowing where they are going and not having love for the Father become ominous judgments that could discourage believers, maybe even make them question John’s love for them. Perhaps John, knowing he had desperately difficult things to say, wanted to reassure his “little children” (1 John 2:1) that they were still very much his “beloved” (v. 7). One can imagine the “beloved disciple” being unable to sustain the necessary criticisms without offering encouragement.
John addresses three, and probably four, distinct groupings of believers: little children (teknia, tεκνία, a diminutive form for the very young), children (paidia, παιδία, older children[2]), young men (neaniskoi, νεανίσκοι), and older men, fathers (pateres, πατέρες). Clearly John is using these descriptions metaphorically, describing those at various stages of their Christian experience and understanding. One member of the group asked why no mention is made of women. Perhaps the metaphorical language includes women believers without explicit mention. Or in such a patriarchal culture the men were seen as representative of families, including wives, sisters, and daughters. If John is addressing different stages of Christian maturity, women would certainly not be excluded.
The different groupings seem to represent phases of spiritual formation.
- The youngest believers, regardless of chronological age, are reminded that they have been forgiven because of the name they have called on, Jesus, and the work He accomplished (v. 12). Even in our day very young children learn the song “Jesus Loves Me.”
- Growing believers, older in the faith but still considered children, have begun to understand that Jesus was on a mission from His Father (the thread woven throughout the Gospel that John wrote). Their understanding of who God is and what He has done continues to deepen and expand.
- Young men, maturing in their faith and dealing with temptations, learn about victory and success in the face of those enticements. Here our discussion turned briefly to the meaning of “victory.” Was John painting a picture of perfect sinless perfection that some in the church had attained? Several in the group pointed out that the beloved disciple has already eliminated that misunderstanding. “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves…” (1 John 1:8). John assumes the reality of sin. “If we confess our sins…” (1 John 1:9a); “If anyone does sin…” (1 John 2:1b). The victory John affirms is not sinlessness (at least, not this side of Paradise) but the victory we have even in failure. “…He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9b); “we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins” (1 John 2:1b-2a). For those “young men” growing in Christian maturity, the victory is understanding that even our sin does not destroy us as the evil one would suggest. Rather than trivializing sin, that maturity continues and intensifies through growing in God’s Word (v. 14b).
- Those who have walked long with the Lord, the fathers, perhaps with spiritual children of their own, have come to know the One who is from the beginning. Our group pondered this phrase. Since John has mentioned Jesus and the Father, maybe this is an ambiguous reference to the Holy Spirit. However, to make “from the beginning” a distinctive of the Holy Spirit would seem odd, especially if there was any hint of contrast with the Father and the Son. (John will have more to say about the Holy Spirit later in this letter, where he becomes very explicit.) “The One who is from the beginning” could also be a reference to the Triune God – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Growing communion with God over years of faith may be part of increasing our meager understanding of the Three-Person God.
Those very general divisions might be suggestions of the process of spiritual formation, the path of spiritual growth. Seeing where we are and seeing others at different points along the path can be helpful guidelines for our maturing process.
However, as one group member pointed out, John may have simply wanted to offer encouragement to members of the church at whatever stage they found themselves. The idea of continual, upward progress, that person pointed out, is very much a modern and western concept. John’s words of encouragement may have been simple reminders to help them face their current struggles. Perhaps our American sense of continual progress sometimes gives us a false filter on our Christian life. Spiritual formation is not a straight-line upward path. Times of dryness, seasons of lament, periods of deep distress, the “dark night of the soul” are all parts of the Christian experience. Sometimes what we need are the kind of encouraging words that John offered his readers in the midst of a difficult letter.
The “poetic” verses still pose a list of questions, many of which we had no time to explore:
- Why the order of children, fathers, young men? Wouldn’t the expected sequence be children, young men, fathers? Was John intentionally drawing attention to his unusual progression?
- Why did he change from the present tense, “I am writing” (vv. 12-13b) to the perfect tense, “I have written” (vv. 13c-14)?
- Why did he change from “little children” to “children” from v. 12 to v. 13b?
- Why did he repeat himself exactly (except for the verb tense of “write”) about fathers (vv. 13a, 14a)?
- Why did he repeat himself about young men (v. 13b), but with the addition of some extra affirmations in the middle of v. 14b?
Each of these questions would be a fruitful area for further study and discussion. Comments (and more questions) are welcome using the “Leave a reply” link on this page.
Further Notes on “love of” (ἀγάπη τοῦ) in 1 John
A possible reading of 1 John 2:15 in some English translations might be construed as a condition of God’s love: “If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” Does this mean that the Father’s love (the love of the Father, the love the Father has for a person) is withheld based on behavior or attitudes. When a particular interpretation is disturbing because it conflicts with our accepted theology, we should not reject the alarming possibility out of hand. It might be that our theology is deficient (or just plain wrong!). Neither should we immediately scrap our theology. As is usually the case, further study and the Puritan’s habit of “assiduous meditation” over Scripture will be profitable.
In this case, other uses of the phrase translated “love of/love for” (ἀγάπη τοῦ) can be helpful. John’s writings contain seven uses of the phrase “love of God/Father” that relate to the understanding as our love for God or God’s love for us. The Holman Christian Study Bible is used for the English translation, since that was the translation used in our group discussion.
(from www.BibleGateway.com).
| GNT | HCSB | Comments | |
| John 5:42 | ἀλλὰ ἔγνωκα ὑμᾶς ὅτι τὴν ἀγάπην τοῦ θεοῦ οὐκ ἔχετε ἐν ἑαυτοῖς. | but I know you—that you have no love for God within you. | Jesus’ words to the Jews persecuting Him because of His work on Sabbath |
| 1 John 2:5a | ὃς δ’ ἂν τηρῇ αὐτοῦ τὸν λόγον, ἀληθῶς ἐν τούτῳ ἡ ἀγάπη τοῦ θεοῦ τετελείωται. | But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected. | Our love for God needs perfecting, not His love for us. |
| 1 John 2:15b | ἐάν τις ἀγαπᾷ τὸν κόσμον, οὐκ ἔστιν ἡ ἀγάπη τοῦ πατρὸς ἐν αὐτῷ· | If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in him. | A deficiency in our love for Him, not a condition of His love for us. |
| 1 John 3:17 | ὃς δ’ ἂν ἔχῃ τὸν βίον τοῦ κόσμου καὶ θεωρῇ τὸν ἀδελφὸν αὐτοῦ χρείαν ἔχοντα καὶ κλείσῃ τὰ σπλάγχνα αὐτοῦ ἀπ’ αὐτοῦ, πῶς ἡ ἀγάπη τοῦ θεοῦ μένει ἐν αὐτῷ; | If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his need—how can God’s love reside in him? | Our relationships demonstrate the quality of our love. Is our love the kind that God has for us and for others. |
| 1 John 4:7 | Ἀγαπητοί, ἀγαπῶμεν ἀλλήλους, ὅτι ἡ ἀγάπη ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐστιν, καὶ πᾶς ὁ ἀγαπῶν ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ γεγέννηται καὶ γινώσκει τὸν θεόν. | Dear friends, let us love one another, because love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. | A slight variation of the phrase, but demonstrating that our love for one another originates from God |
| 1 John 4:9 | ἐν τούτῳ ἐφανερώθη ἡ ἀγάπη τοῦ θεοῦ ἐν ἡμῖν, ὅτι τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἀπέσταλκεν ὁ θεὸς εἰς τὸν κόσμον ἵνα ζήσωμεν δι’ αὐτοῦ. | God’s love was revealed among us in this way: God sent His One and Only Son into the world so that we might live through Him. | Clearly this use does represent God’s love for us rather than our love for God, as John makes clear in the context. |
| 1 John 5:3a | αὕτη γάρ ἐστιν ἡ ἀγάπη τοῦ θεοῦ ἵνα τὰς ἐντολὰς αὐτοῦ τηρῶμεν | For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. | Another example showing our behavior indicates the genuineness of our love for God. |
From those uses, it should be clear that the context is critical for understanding the meaning of the phrase. In at least one instance (1 John 4:9) John is writing about the ultimate demonstration of God’s love for us. Elsewhere (1 John 2:5a, 5:3) the point is that our behavior indicates how much we actually love God beyond just our spiritual-sounding words. Those passages, along with other New Testament writings, make it clear that John is not telling his readers that divine love (God’s, the Father’s) is conditioned on our behavior or attitudes.
A troubling verse that challenges our theology may not mean our theology is wrong. It may be our interpretation that needs work!
[1] he agape tou patros, ἡ ἀγάπη τοῦ πατρὸς – since no preposition is provided in the original, either “of” or “for” is a legitimate translation of the genitive case as determined by the context.
[2] For example, the children old enough to learn in school or tend sheep). cf. James Hope Moulton and George Milligan, The Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament Illustrated from the Papyri and Other Non-Literary Sources (Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1976), 473.